Két helyen szerepel (egyik helyen Táná debé Rabbi Jismáél, a másik Táná debé Smuel), és csak a kenyér kivétele és a sófár fújására vonatkozik.
A másmáut mindkét helyen: abszolút mutár micád hádin, rabbinikus korlátozás van rá. (Lehet, hogy pont ezért kell mondani, tanítani, „érzékenyíteni”, hogy nehogy valaki félreértse.)
And the Sages taught: If one forgot bread in the oven and did not remove it until the day of Shabbat was sanctified, he may rescue enough food for three meals from the oven. And, one may say to others: Come and rescue bread for yourselves. And when one removes the bread from the oven, he may not remove it in the usual manner with a baker’s paddle, but he removes it in an unusual manner, e.g., with a knife. The Gemara asks: Is that so? Didn’t the school of Rabbi Yishmael teach that it is stated: “And the seventh day is Shabbat for the Lord, your God, you shall not perform any labor” (Exodus 20:10), and the emphasis on the word labor excludes blowing the shofar and removing bread, which is a skill and not a labor, and which therefore is not prohibited on Shabbat. If by Torah law removing bread on Shabbat is permitted, why may one not remove it in the usual manner? The Gemara answers: Nevertheless, as much as it is possible to alter the manner in which one removes bread from the oven one alters, to emphasize that the day is Shabbat.
The Gemara cites a proof for this last claim: As a Sage of the school of Shmuel taught in a baraita, with regard to the verse that prohibits performing prohibited labor on Festivals: “Any prohibited labor of work you shall not perform” (Numbers 29:1). This comes to exclude from the category of prohibited labors the sounding of the shofar and the removal of bread from the oven, each of which is a skill and not a labor, and therefore they are not included in the category of prohibited labor. Apparently, sounding the shofar is not prohibited by Torah law.
Ami sosem derült ki: 1. Ha valóban nem meláchá, mert nincsen benne munka, akkor mi volt a hávemine, miért írja a Tóra? 2. Létezik-e bármi más ezen a kettőn kívül, amire alkalmazható?
Rámbám szépen összefoglalja, megfogalmazza a törvényt:
Although removing a loaf [of bread from the side of an oven] does not involve a [forbidden] labor, our Sages forbade doing so, lest one be prompted to bake.
If one stuck a loaf to [the side of] an oven before the commencement of the Sabbath, and afterwards the Sabbath began, one may remove enough for three meals. Similarly, one may tell others, "Come and take for yourselves." Although removing a loaf does not involve a [forbidden] labor, in this situation, when one removes a loaf, one should not do so with a baker's peel, but rather with a knife, in order to deviate from one's ordinary procedure.
A Sulchán Áruch már szigorít: csak akkor szabad kivenni, ha nincs mit ennie.
Before nightfall [on Friday], it is forbidden to place bread in an oven unless there is enough time during the day for a crust to form on the side of the loaf that sticks to the oven, and one may not place a loaf to be baked on [or over] coals unless there is enough time during the day for a crust to form on the side of the loaf facing the fire. RAMA: And any that is sliced and the pieces stick are called קרימת פנים, crusted on the face/top (Hagahos Maimoni). Pashtida and פלאדי"ן require a crust on the surface on top and bottom, and what is inside it must be cooked to Ma'achal Ben D'rusai (Beis Yosef in the name of the Sma"g...) If one placed them (on the coals/fire), close to nightfall and their surface did not crust, if one did so intentionally it is forbidden until Motzei Shabbat for the one who made it; and if unintentionally, if one did not have anything else to eat one is permitted to remove it for the Third Meal. One may tell others who do not have anything else to eat to come and remove the food for the Third Meal; and when removing the bread, he should not remove it with a baker’s peel, but rather with a knife or something similar so that he doesn't do it the same way he does during the weekdays. If one cannot remove the bread in a different way, he may remove it with a baker's peel. And if one waited the amount of time it takes for it to crust, so that he will not perform a forbidden task and it is a Shabbat need, he may remove it like he normally does; if not for a Shabbat need, he may not do so even in a different way. Rema: All of this applies regarding an oven that is not sealed with clay (Hagahos Ashiri). However if it is sealed with clay, or he is not baking it for the needs of Shabbat, but rather for Motzei Shabbat where it has time to bake, it is permitted because we do not make a Gezeirah in this situation due to (worrying) he might rake the coals (Kol Bo)
Az itt szereplő krum (kenyérhéj keményítés) forrása egy korábbi szugja a Gemárában, ezt a kettőt vonta össze itt a Sulchán Áruch:
We should not place bread in an oven [directly] before nightfall, nor should we place a cake on coals unless [there is time] for the surface attached to the oven or [the side of the cake] facing the fire to crust. [Should this be done,] it is permissible to leave it to continue baking afterwards, for if one stirs [the coals], one will spoil the bread.
[The following rules apply when one places bread in an oven] before nightfall and there is not sufficient time for its surface to crust before nightfall. If one did so with a deliberate intent to violate [the above ruling], it is forbidden to partake of the bread until Saturday night, after sufficient time for it to bake has passed.If one did so unknowingly, it is permitted to remove bread for the three Sabbath meals. When one removes the bread, one should not remove it using a baker's peel as one does during the week. Instead, one should use a knife or other similar utensil.
MISHNA: This mishna enumerates actions that may only be performed on Shabbat eve if the prohibited labor will be totally or mostly completed while it is still day. One may only roast meat, an onion, or an egg if there remains sufficient time so that they could be roasted while it is still day. One may only place dough to bake into bread in the oven on Shabbat eve at nightfall, and may only place a cake on the coals, if there is time enough that the surface of this cake or bread will form a crust while it is still day. Rabbi Eliezer says: Enough time so that its bottom crust should harden, which takes less time. However, in a case that is an exception, one may,ab initio, lower the Paschal lamb into the oven on Shabbat eve at nightfall, so that its roasting is completed on Shabbat if Passover eve coincides with Shabbat eve. And one may,ab initio, kindle the fire in the bonfire of the Chamber of the Hearth in the Temple on Shabbat eve, adjacent to the start of Shabbat, and allow the fire to spread afterward throughout all the wood in the bonfire.
Misna Berura is szigorú abban az ügyben, hogy nincs mit ennie. Sőt, erre építi, hogy akár olyan modernebb sütőben is tilos legyen, amiben nincsen már a chochmá sem.
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